Edwin: Let me ask you about Billy Childish.
I love his music, by the way. It seems to me he used you guys,
Screamin' Jay Hawkins, the Kinks, Jimmy Reed and a few others
as his shtick. How long was he, basically, doing you guys before
you found out about him?
Don: About five years, I would imagine. He went through the Milkshakes
and Thee Mighty Caesars and then he put Thee Headcoats together.
Then he got in touch with us.
Edwin: So he got in touch with you rather than the other way around.
Don: Yeah, he got his drummer to get in touch with us. They bought
a few albums and then we became friends. He said, "Would
you like to come and do an EP?" so we did that and it worked
great. Then we did a couple of albums and went to Japan.
Edwin: I love the Ready Sect Go album. Was that just released
on Vinyl Japan?
Don: Yeah, I think so. It was great; Vinyl Japan took us out to
Japan and we had a great time.
Edwin: They've done some great albums with Billy too.
Don: He's a really, really clever guy. For a guy that's supposed
to be dyslexic, he can do everything. He's a great painter wood
carver
Edwin: Yeah, he's also one of those people that practically anyone
can talk to. I went to see him one time in L.A. where he did two
sets. I was just hanging around between sets and he came over
and sat next to me and started talking to me, out of the blue.
He seems very approachable.
Don: Yeah, he is. When all of the record companies have written
you off over the years, he returns the complement. We got a load
of Downliners tracks that we never ever got royalties for. We
put it together, Billy and myself, and we put it out as The Birth
of Suave. That's it and we get the money from that.
Edwin: That's one of my favorite records!
Don: And we used a photo that wasn't used from the original session.
He's good, very anarchic apart from when you play. When you do
a set with Billy Childish, it's exact. Every song is in the right
place, the arrangements never change, which is strange, because
that's the way he plays guitar. He doesn't do music; he just learns
the piece he's playing by ear so you can't change it.
Edwin: Was he instrumental at all in getting you guys excited
about playing again?
Don: No, we were already rolling. But what was good was that he
introduced us to the garage set of fans that we weren't in touch
with up to that point. We knew about the mods, but the garage
is better for us. We're not so limited. When you play for the
mods they want everything exactly the same as it was in the '60s,
same guitar, same notes, everything. The garage people are more
open about it; if the music's good, fine.
Edwin: Burning Snow is the latest release you've done. What are
you doing recording wise?
Don: We have a studio album on the way. Al and Del have just put
together a studio over the years so we're writing stuff and we'll
be going into their studio and getting something together.
Edwin: Who's going to be put it out?
Don: I have no idea. We make our own albums and then we license
them. That way we retain control and every three or four years
we get the product back again. Much better.
Edwin: Was Savage Return recorded in 1991?
Don: Yeah. Burning Snow was recorded in 2000, live. The last studio
album was
Keith: Dangerous Ground.
Someone: '98.
Don: Yeah, 1998. That was our last studio album.
Edwin: How often do you play in England? Once a month? Once every
other month?
Don: It depends. We get a little run of a few days and then we
don't do anything for a month and then we tour maybe Scandinavia
and then we'll maybe come out here for a little bit. When we get
back we have a sweep coming up after Christmas, we have a festival
coming up in Paris. I believe the Chesterfield Kings are doing
the one in Paris as well. (ed. they were one of the Las
Vegas Rockaround bands).
Edwin: Do any of you have day jobs?
Don: Odds and sods. A couple of us own businesses so other people
do the work. (laughs) And I fill in doing reviews, columns and
features for magazines. Keith does the same.
Edwin: You guys could have been the other Mick and Keith if you
hadn't changed names.
Don (Mick): (laughs) Yeah, that's right.
Keith: I thought of that about thirty years ago.
Don: If we hadn't done that, they would have been the other Mick
and Keith.
Edwin: There is no other Don and Keith.
Don: No. There's a Don and Phil
Edwin: A Donnie and Marie
Keith: There's a Mick and Phil isn't there?
Don: Could be
Keith: Well, the Pretty Things.
Don: That's Dick and Phil.
Edwin: When you guys were writing songs in the'60s, was it true
collaboration? I notice that both of your names are on some of
the songs. Was one guy doing the music and one the lyrics or what?
Don: It was slightly that way to start with. It's not that way
anymore. Sometimes we collaborate and sometimes we don't collaborate.
We write our own songs and then the other one will come up with
a little idea.
Keith: The thing is that we all write. Del writes and so does
Paul on the various albums that we've done together through the
years. We've all written together for quite a long time. The title
track from the Dangerous Ground record was written by Del.
Don: And the title track from the A Light Went Out in New York
album, which we did with Matthew Fisher, was written by Paul.
We all get a crack at it. One of the songs I worked on for Dangerous
Ground, I loved the lyrics, but the only tune I could come up
with was a standard tune so I gave it to Del and he came up with
something great.
Edwin: I think I read somewhere that Matthew Fisher was with you
for about a month.
Don: He was with us quite a while. He left Sutchie (Screaming
Lord Sutch and the Savages ed.) to join us and then he left
us to join the Paramounts, who by then were Procul Harum.
Edwin: There was quite a while then between the time he was with
you and when they (Procul Harum ed.) had the big hit ("Whiter
Shade of Pale" ed.)
Don: We weren't recording, unfortunately, at that time so we didn't
get him on record in the'60s. We got him on Savage Return.
Keith: There were various other people who played with us like
John Paul Jones before he went to Led Zeppelin. There were people
who did back ups on various things like Marty Wilde and his wife
Joyce, excellent people.
Don: From the rock and roll days.
Edwin: Is it still a kick going on stage and playing?
Don: There's no point in it if it isn't.
Keith: It's great. You should have a quick word with Del and Alan.
Their original band in the '60s was the Barrier, which was a very
underground outfit.
Don: They were one of the first people to do a video, or a film
rather, before videos.
Edwin: Tell me about the Barrier.
Del: It started about 1966 or '67
Alan: And then went up to '70. Recording wise, we did very little
and there seems to be a cult following due to the b-sides of the
singles that they were pushing out for us at Phillips. They wanted
this very commercial, good-looking kind of '60s band, which we
were, but at the same time there was a real rock, hard sort of
like Hendrix and Cream built right underneath it. The b-sides
have seemed to be picked up by a very strong mod contingent that
is well locked into the '60s type of material.
Edwin: did quote unquote professionals write the a-sides while
you guys wrote the b-sides or what?
Alan: That's how it works. You just hit the nail on the head.
Edwin: So the fans are actually trying to capture you guys.
Alan: The Barrier, as I say, was quite a ferocious, hard hitting
thing not this commercialized, goody goody sweet '60s band. The
songs were very poppy on the a-sides, but the b-sides showed a
different animal.
Edwin: How many singles did you guys do?
Alan: We actually did four. There's an album that has been released
over in Spain called First, Last and Always, which just consists
of four b-side songs. In that sort of cult following, it seems
to be doing very well, but there's never ever been any sort of
reforming of the Barrier. As we were then, that's how it was left
in the '70s when the band split up.
Edwin: Were there other songs, like acetates or whatever, that
never got released as singles?
Alan: There is one thing and I feel it's amazing that it was actually
found. We recorded a festival in Belgium and it was filmed. I
was amazed that it was found in the archives. It was found by
Eric, the singer. I think he must have put the Sherlock Holmes
hat on to discover how to get it. It was a real blast from the
past to see yourself all the way back in the '60s on a live recording
at a festival. We did a lot of promotional films at that time
because our manager at the time was an ex BBC cameraman and he
knew all the ins needed to do filming. So the a-sides had a promotional
film to go with it, but the nearest one to actually get to the
b-side stuff was this vintage live recording that cropped up from
Eric's detection. I think it was some Dutch company, I don't know
the name.
Edwin: What's the quality like? Is it TV quality?
Alan: It was a TV company that actually filmed it. It's black
and white and the sound was audible. The last we heard, this mod
contingent asked our permission to rescue any of the last bits
of material that was recorded by the Barrier live. We told them
to go for it, that it sounded fantastic. That really puts the
Barrier in the picture. There is definitely a cult following of
the Barrier.
Edwin: You're lucky that there is something that exists beyond
the singles because that's not the case with probably 99 percent
of the bands from that era.
Alan: There's another band that's actually recorded one of our
b-sides and it's pretty amazing to hear it. They recorded it more
or less identically, the same way, that's how intense they are
about locking on to the '60s.
Edwin: Did you guys ever play the same sort of circuit as the
Downliners Sect?
Alan: We did everything from ballrooms to pub gigs to TV to festivals
so it was quite varied.
Edwin: Did you hook up with them later? Did you know about each
other back in the late '6os?
Alan: I started working with Keith in a band called Punch and
Judy. We did an album for Transatlantic records in the early '70s.
Here's a weird one, I actually played with the Dowliners early
on. I joined the Downliners officially in 1988. I did actually
do a gig with the Downliners, it must have been some sort of fate
that we were going to do something in the later years, and that
must have been something like 1965. Their current drummer couldn't
do it and I had to meet them outside Bethnal Green Station where
they picked me up in this old van. I thought I was going to get
the gig with the Downliners, but I was only about fifteen at the
time. They were doing a lot of tours over in Sweden and Germany
and Europe generally and there would have been complications for
me to have to go to these embassies to keep track of me because
I was underage. So that didn't happen, but the fate still sort
of came about with me and Keith being the rhythm section in this
Punch and Judy band. We also went out in various other outfits
as a tight rhythm section, just bass and drums. We're pretty much
telepathic, the length we've been playing out. Then Del entered
the midst and me, Del and Keith went out like the three piece.
We did a few dates out as the Skeleton Crew. Would you like to
have a little chat with Paul?
Edwin: How long have you been part of the Sect?
Paul: '75 I think, something around that time.
Edwin: So you're kind of the late addition
Paul: (laughs) Well I guess I'm the young guy.
Edwin: If this were Star Trek, you'd be the one that wouldn't
come back from the strange planet. I'm not sure if you know that
scenario
Paul: I'm not a big fan of Star Trek.
Edwin: Who did you play with before the Downliners?
Paul: I used to be in the Black Cat Bones with Paul Kossoff and
Simon Kirke.
Edwin: Wow! I had the Barbed Wire Sandwich album when I was a
kid.
Paul: It's a bit of a collector's piece now, that one.
Edwin: Is it available on reissue CD?
Paul: I believe it is, yeah. I believe they put it out on See
For Miles in England. I think it went down very well in Japan
and a few other places.
Edwin: I loved that album cover.
Paul: It was designed by Derek Brooks who was the rhythm guitarist.
He made this sort of model. He used to be in the Medieval Society
in England, making his own bows and arrows and things like that.
Edwin: Were you a fan of the Downliners?
Paul: Yeah, I was. I think I saw the Downliners for the first
time at the Suffolk Community Center.
Edwin: In your hometown?
Paul: Yeah, it was a sort of council assembly kind of place. It
was very big and had lots of echo so it was hard to get the real
sound, but they were very great. They were part of the Twickenham,
Richmond British blues scene, the Rolling Stones, the Yardbirds
and all that and I listened to all that.
Edwin: Did you guys all live pretty close to each other?
Paul: We were in the same area. I started playing when I was about
thirteen. We used to play charity gigs for the county council.
Then I got into blues and rhythm and blues. I played with the
Black cat Bones. I was the lead singer. I got them through the
Marquis auditions in London and the BBC auditions and things took
off for us. Blues was my great love.
Edwin: How did you end up in Downliners Sect?
Paul: Well, they had sort of gone for a great while and then sort
of came to a halt. I knew Don, through another friend, and we
used to go out as a duo called Loose End. We ran our own club
and would have people like Elvis Costello come and play for us
and Don and I would play the opening set, as it were, with our
own numbers. We'd have a guest on like Costello, a mixture of
blues and folk artists basically. When there was interest in reforming
the Downliners, the original harmonica player they thought he
had died or something. I came in as the fifth member and I've
been there ever since.
Edwin: So you're playing harmonica
Paul: And singing and playing a little bit of sax. I play guitar
and bass as well.
Edwin: Are you guys doing any of the Loose End stuff?
Paul" We do it now and again. It depends on what time we
have. This gig here, we've got like fifty minutes so we've got
to condense a lot of stuff to try and please so many people and
some other people are going to say. "Why didn't you play
so and so?" It's quite difficult.
Edwin: There are a whole lot of songs that I would think are essentials.
That doesn't leave a whole lot of room for throwing in personal
favorites. I mean there are some with the word "sect"
in them that have to be included.
Paul: Well, we've included some like "Sect Appeal" and
"Insceticide." We've included a couple like that. There's
also numbers that we feel that people get off on, our version
of "Monkey Business," "Glendora" obviously,
"Little Egypt." When we were coming up this morning,
someone stopped us and said, "Hey, it's great to see you
guys. Can you play Cadillac?" Unfortunately, we can't get
everything in in fifty minutes. We hope we've got enough balance
in the set to please our people and also the people that don't
know us will come to our way of digging the music.
Edwin: Very good. I want to talk to the other member now. Del,
who did you play with before the Downliners Sect?
Del: I was with Alan in the Barrier.
Edwin: Did you do anything that was recording before the Barrier,
or was that your introduction to rock and roll?
Del: I was with a couple other bands before that. We didn't do
any recording, but I was with a band called San Serif and a couple
other little bands that weren't doing anything, but the Barrier
was the first band where I was actually recording.
Edwin: What happened to the Barrier? Why did you guys break up?
Del: We kind of folded up when the singer started getting more
into film. Our manager at the time used to make films of bands.
He used to do bands like Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich
and so the lead singer got into working with him more on the film
side and so the band kind of folded up at that point. We got another
band together briefly called Slam Hefty, but we didn't record
and that was kind of the end of the Barrier. That was the end
of '69, beginning of '70.
Edwin: Did you and Alan come to the Downliners as a package deal?
Del: Well, we'd kept in touch and Alan had got to know Keith.
We put together a band called Skeleton Crew, me Del and Keith
and then this opportunity with the Downliners came up.
Edwin: When was that.
Del: '89, I think. The first album we did was Savage Return.
Edwin: Do you have a company you're running from over here or
are you not one of those guys?
Del: I'm not one of those guys.
Edwin: Do you have a day job or is this enough?
Del: I don't make enough. I have a building company gig going.
Bits and pieces.
(After this exchange, there was general agreement that all topics
had been covered reasonably well.)